Leilouta

Monday, April 03, 2006

Egyptian Experts on Islamic Religious Law Debate Female Circumcision

Luckily I haven't met any woman who is circumcised or so I hope. I know that it still happens in some parts of the world, but I had no idea that some experts and especially this young Doctor could even agree with this procedure.
I am shocked at Dr. Muhammad Wahdan's "logic" and in admiration of Dr. Malika Zarrar who stood against him. You have to watch the video here. It is in Arabic but subtitled in English. It is clip number 1090.
I can't believe this stuff is still happening in this DNA age!

Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Ibn Al-Qayyem recounts that when Hagar married Abraham and got pregnant, Sara was very jealous of her. Because of her jealousy, she swore by Allah that she would cut off three of Hagar's body parts. Abraham was afraid that she would cut off Hagar's nose or ears, so he instructed her to pierce Hagar's ears and to circumcise her. This was the beginning of female circumcision in history.


This Doctor goes on to say that although he is against total removal of the clitoris, there are girls who do need to have some of it removed to prevent improper arousal.

“Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I will tell you which girls. A girl phoned me once - A woman called me - there is no shame in asking questions about religion... A girl called me and said: When I take the Metro, wearing tight jeans... The Metro in Egypt jolts about like this... She said: I get really aroused. What should I do?”


For his information, I heard from some women that a woman can get aroused in cars and buses, not because of the tight jeans or the handsome driver, but because of all the bumping around on those buses especially in the Arab world where the roads are not paved as well.
Damn our girls must be horny as hell.

Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: " We must take all girls to a Muslim doctor who specializes in this, who will determine whether she needs a khifadh circumcision or not. If a girl needs a khifadh, we should perform it, and if a girl does not need it, we should not."


Thank God my mom didn't take me to any of those doctors.
Asking to do that is like asking men to cut their penis every time they get aroused by' tight jeans", sorry I mean by girls wearing tight jeans.
Can you imagine? There would be no ‘real’ men left.

Here is the best part,
"In Egypt we have four and a half million spinsters. The definition of a spinster is a woman who has reached 30, without ever receiving a marriage proposal. We have a spinster problem in the Arab world, and the last thing we want is for them to be sexually aroused. Circumcision of the girls who need it makes them chaste, dignified, and pure."


I don’t understand why that is a problem. Not every single woman in the world wants to get married and not every single one has to do so to be happy.
They can just ride buses and cars I guess.

Here are some links about this subject. I am not making fun of it. I think it is sad that some girls have to go through it. I am just making fun of this Dr's absurd reasons.

Amnesty International
World Health Organization
Muslim Woman's League

UPDATE: Sand Monkey has a male perspective.

38 Comments:

  • At 12:05 AM, Blogger Pazuzu said…

    What's so bad about getting aroused?! And besides, if the woman doesn't get aroused on her own then she is unlikely to do so with a partner, thus reducing her willingness to have sex with her husband, making men less pleased, aren't women supposed to please there husbands?

     
  • At 1:00 AM, Blogger Chris in MB said…

    I was not aware this was also taking place in Egypt.
    Always thought it was more if a south/central African custom.

    This is based on the story of an ancient woman's jealousy???

     
  • At 1:51 AM, Blogger GC said…

    Actually, the presence of female curcimcision in Egypt dates from ore-Islamic times. As usual, societies integrate customs and practices into a religious context and thus it becomes ingrained in people's behavior.

     
  • At 1:55 AM, Blogger GC said…

    Soory there was a typo in the last comment: ore-Islamic times = pre-Islamic times.

     
  • At 2:03 AM, Blogger Lilly said…

    I cant believe it 2! am not with it!! i dont believe Women have to do it.

     
  • At 2:28 AM, Blogger keda said…

    i also thought this was mostly an african custom. thanks for the reminder babe. i will investigate more. this horrific misogynistic abuse is vile.

    i've been catching up with your posts....
    interesting stuff! and lovely blossom. congrats and good luck with the new job*

     
  • At 6:16 AM, Blogger Olivia said…

    God meant sex to be a pleasure. If it is no longer so, then how can a woman please her husband - if she is one of millions of women who have been taught to hate it, and been mutilated - which makes it painful, dangerous, and inhumane.

    Furthermore, if the spinsters, whose situations are not likely to change, are not allowed to release their natural urges or are mutilated, then what a lot of angry and resentful women there will be!

     
  • At 6:56 AM, Anonymous Amina said…

    Experts? Yea right..

     
  • At 7:51 AM, Blogger The Sandmonkey said…

    we are on the same wavelength today.

     
  • At 8:39 AM, Blogger Cate said…

    If I were not a mild innocent peaceful spinster..I would pray to the goddess Sekhmet to bring down a multitude of pestilences upon the Dr. and the mufti (anti statue guy), so they would suffer weeping oozing wounds that would not heal, rashes to make them scratch their skins bloody, painful boils that turn gangrenous, and rotting teeth. That would be just the start of their torments. Being civilized and non violent, of course I would not do such a thing but I can see the appeal of prayer.

     
  • At 8:40 AM, Blogger Elaine said…

    I wish they would try and circumcise me... there would be carnage everywhere and you can bet my clitoris and I would be the last people standing!

    Sorry.. I have a great affinity for my clitoris and its sole function.

    Amazing that they can actually "reason" torture like that.

     
  • At 8:44 AM, Blogger opinionatedinjerzee said…

    oh my god.. i thought i had heard it all.. but now this!! i cant stop laughing so i will have to comment in a little while!

     
  • At 9:41 AM, Blogger forsoothsayer said…

    actually i wrote a paper about this in university...the statistics says that 95% of women in egypt have been circumcized. there was a bib hubub about it in the early 90's when somehow the circumcision of a 12 yr old was featured on cnn and the world powers came down on egypt hard. i believe they passed a law at some point, but all it has done is request that these things be done is hospital. look up dr. nawal saadawi's work if u want more on this. she has been battling this for over 30 years.

     
  • At 9:52 AM, Blogger Shy said…

    Don’t ya just hate sadistic people who are intent on controlling everything about peoples lives..

    Why doesn’t he apply his "logic" to men, if they aren’t married by the age of 30 then its time to cut their penis off in order to remain chaste! So who goes first? Step forward please

     
  • At 10:07 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said…

    I hate to keep making this point, but the fact is that the Qur'an addresses all its verses to men (or to believers in general) women are always 'they' not you, and there is no recognition of a woman's sexuality in it. Cetainly there are many Muslims, male and female, who see the barbarity of this. But I have to make the point that I know of no non-Muslim society at all (except perhaps for some animists in Africa) that has this or defends it. But here we have a cleric defending it.
    As for the anti-statue cleric, the irony is that he was, less than a month ago, put forward to me in a dispute, as a good example of a 'moderate.'

     
  • At 10:14 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said…

    I read the transcript after I posted my comment. I have to quote the ending for those of you who didn't.

    "Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I have no relation to reality. I am talking about how things should be.

    Interviewer: You are a religious sheik, from Al-Azahar University. You cannot say you have no relation to reality.

    Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Reality is a mistake, we must rectify it."

    'Nuff said.

     
  • At 11:19 AM, Blogger infidelirious said…

    This post kinda made me aroused.

     
  • At 11:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    LoL...you are too indidelirious...

     
  • At 12:00 PM, Blogger Olivia said…

    He said "reality is a mistake" to be rectified?

    now i have heard it all...

     
  • At 12:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Leilouta said,"For his information, I heard from some women that a woman can get aroused in cars and buses..."
    Hey Leilouta, could you plz elaborate?

     
  • At 12:53 PM, Blogger Chic Mommy said…

    I had a friend in college who was Egyptian and she had been "circumcised". She didn't remember when it was done to her, it was probably too traumatic, but let's just say it didn't stop her from having premarital sex. She had tons of boyfriends and outfitted her dorm room to look like a whorehouse: red light bulbs, huge futon engulfing the entire room, satin sheets. She was one crazy chick!

     
  • At 1:52 PM, Blogger Alphaprimer said…

    This issue is shameful, disgraceful and vile in nature, and offers no justification, because if God made all of us in his image, why do we need to modify ourselves to please him, if he already created us that way anyway?

    - i read some of the descriptions of the videos on the link that leilouta sent, its crazy you see all of these countries saying outrageous and dangerous things, people from QATAR, DUBAI, IRAN, HIZBULLAH and SAUDI ARABIA, why aren't we going after them? and also, why isn't America hearing these issues at all? We want a rosy picture of the GOOD we are doing in IRAQ while real threats like IRAN who just recently, tested a new Torpedo, go un-noticed.


    here is a transcript from the torpedo clip.

    "General Ali Fadavi: The very powerful warhead of this missile enables it to be used against fleets, as well as against large submarines. Allah willing, just as we've reached many accomplishments, including this missile, we will have even greater achievements.

    With the exception of one other country, we alone possess this missile. This gives us a special superiority over any other warship within the operational range of this missile.

    The important thing is that this missile is fired by launch pads of our own design. These designs differ from regular naval capabilities.

    Vessels capable of launching this missile have high velocity and an extremely great maneuvering ability. The systems installed in these vessels have given them anti-radar stealth capability, and nobody can identify them. When they are in the region no one can track them when the missile is launched, or take any action against them."

    And something like this, doesnt raise an eyebrow in the directions of america and the world in general?? The story can be found on the CNN website but you have to dig around in the middle east section of it to find it. Come on now.

     
  • At 1:59 PM, Blogger Virenda said…

    I have heard of this before and thought how extremely sad it is for the woman. After all sex is supposed to be pleasurable and taking that away is horrible. You know it's the message that is really sick,that woman SHOULDN'T enjoy sex, that it is wrong and disgusting. That is sad and twisted.

     
  • At 2:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I beleive the beginnings of this practice may have had more to do with protecting the bloodlines and inheritance within a patriarcal tribal context. Nothing could be more damaging to a tribe than sexual freedom among the young woman. Marriage for love or lust instead of carefully arranged ones would wreak havoc. Children born outside of these arrangements would also cause the tribe stress. I think this may also help explain why some of these types of tribal cultures are so homophobic. Imagine the transfer of wealth and title if you were dealing with two tent-dwelling 'life partners'.

    2c From LH

     
  • At 3:20 PM, Blogger Amanda said…

    This subject makes me feel ill. I recently read about the Maasai in Tanzania who practice this, but didn't know it was part of the Muslim world, too.

    I just don't understand the amazing double standard and the way women are treated. I really don't.

     
  • At 5:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I hope you have the courage to talk also about tunis too

     
  • At 5:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    are you circumcised ..?

     
  • At 5:41 PM, Blogger Leilouta said…

    Yes, and now I only have 9 toes!

     
  • At 6:46 PM, Blogger Ron Larson said…

    This is an excellent example of cultural practices being integrated into faith. Many of the ugly aspects of Islam seem to be based more on the ancient cultural norms of the area (versus what is said in the Koran).

    I was not aware that this was being done in Egypt. I thought it was a sub-Sahara Africa thing. Sad.

     
  • At 6:47 PM, Blogger Jane said…

    I find circumcision of either sex to be hideous and cruel. Have you ever seen one done? I have and it is beyond unpleasant. I refused to have my son cut up at birth like many American parents do to their sons. If it becomes medically necessary or if he chooses to do so when he's older, ok. But to mutilate genitals just for the hell of it? Circumcision of women is particularly cruel as it takes away the pleasure of sex forever. It is unf--kingbelivable what kind of torture we put each other through.

     
  • At 9:26 PM, Blogger gatorbait said…

    Aux nombreuses choses je peux penser à pour faire avec la belle fleur qui est les organes génitaux d'une femme, en particulier son clitoris, mutilation et la destruction de la fleur de plaisir n'est pas l'une d'entre elles.

    Je dois remettre en cause l'intelligence de détruire quelque chose mutuellement agréable.

     
  • At 1:43 AM, Blogger Papa Ray said…

    gatorbait said: "Of the many things I can think of to make with the beautiful flower which is the genitals of a woman, in particular her clitoris, mutilation and the destruction of the flower of pleasure is not one of them.

    I must call into question the intelligence to destroy something mutually pleasant."

     
  • At 1:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    the tale about cutting off three of her body parts is ludicrous.There is no mention of female circumcision in the Bible,only male circumcision,which was a sign of the covenant between God and His people.
    For males,having this procedure does not leesen sexual pleasure,and in fact may increase it.Female circumcision is sick and pathetic,and any man who defends it should be castrated!

     
  • At 2:24 AM, Blogger mina said…

    hélas l'exision existe encore chez certaines familles mais attention je voulais ajouter une précision : la religion n'a absolument rien à voir là dedans! Au contraire, le prophéte Mohammed (saw) disait qu'il fallait éviter ce genre de pratique car elle pouvait nuire à la santé sexuelle et notamment au couple.
    en fait, c'est une très vieille tradition qu'il faut absolument enlevée car elle est tout simplement dangeureuse et dégradante pour la femme

     
  • At 3:25 AM, Anonymous Don Cox said…

    "For males,having this procedure does not leesen sexual pleasure,and in fact may increase it."____This is not true. Check out some of the foreskin restoration sites. Male circumcision is a bad thing, as is any form of child abuse. But female genital mutilation is much worse than male. I don't think chopping parts off healthy children should be legal anywhere.

     
  • At 10:18 AM, Blogger Prup (aka Jim Benton) said…

    Thanks to Sand Monkey, I have to correct my previous post. Apparently this IS fairly common in both Muslim and animist, and even in some Christian African and Middle Eastern communities.
    He gives the Amnesty International article, which is here:
    http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm9.htm

    I will admit that I'd like to see a correlation between these countries and their religious backgrounds.

    Still, animism doesn't claim to be a world-wode religion giving god's final word to mankind, as Islam does.

     
  • At 11:36 AM, Blogger أحمد said…

    من تصاريف القدر
    أن محمد وهدان مدرس و دكتور جامعى لي

     
  • At 2:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Don cox,"foreskin restoration sites!?" lol! I learn something new every day.
    I still don't think male circumcision is a bad thing,and it's certainly not child abuse,and if it is,then God is guilty because He commanded it of His Chosen People. Dan

     

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