On a side note though, I find it ridiculous that Islam has to keep defending itself from the west.
If you want to wear a Hijab etc then you should be able to just go ahead and do it without explaination or criticism. I don't have to explain why I wear jeans everyother day.
It was hard to read the English translation at the end of the film, however it seems that charms, beauty, and adornment are all terms subject to interpretation. The classical Arabic used in the Quran puts native speakers at a disadvantage when interpreting the meaning. Imagine what is left to those who read those same passages translated into a completely different language! My instructor for Understanding Islam, a Muslim Jordanian, insisted that the Quran does not actually mandate what parts of the body were to be covered-only that modesty be exercised. This translation reflects the vague nature that he described.
Did anyone else think some of the responses seemed jilted? The niqabi answered in what seemed a natural manner, but the 'fashion' chic? I wondered if she thought she was being interviewed about the hijab strictly as a fashion accessory.
Leilouta, I found it interesting that you linked to the video without comment. I admire you for that. It made me think for myself (not always something I do best) and view the women as they present themselves.
I'm a pretty old fart, but since I was a kid, I saw women with head scarves and realized they were from a different culture. No problem. But the woman showing only her eyes? Sorry, but that strikes me as a little creepy. It's seen in American culture as repression more than expression.
I spent seven months in Saudi Arabia and never got used to the way women are treated, despite that that're convinced they're "happy" with their lot in life.
Very interesting! I've been thinking alot recently about whether to "hijab-up" or not and this film reflects both sides of the argument I suppose. As CairoGal says the Koranic prescription is quite vauge so I'm still struggling to decide... Thanks for a great post!
Also please anyone take a look at my blog...it is quite new and I'm trying to develop a readership :-) Thanks!
I could be wrong, but I believe Leila put this video up because it's a bunch of malay/Singaporean female students being ironic about the various justifications women use for hijab, even though there is no explicit instruction to wear hijab in the Quran. The last passage in the film shows a general call to cover the breasts and private parts, and that's it. It has been extrapolated for cultural reasos to mean hair, the entire body, etc.
And everyone from the moderates, the polical, and the followers, to the niqabi (full cover) are shown not to know what on earth is behind their particular brand of modesty, religously speaking. Ironically, that means that the least hypocritical was the fashion victim because she openly admitted to not caring for religion, and only used hijab as a fashion statement.
And really, look past the film-school acting. This was an incredibbly brave film made by these women.If it was done in Malaysia, it's particularly interesting.
Thanks so much for that, Leila. If you disagree with my interpretation, please give me yours.
I find the video very interesting. I think wearing Hijab is a personal decision. I would say that more important is how you live your life and treat fellow humans that has more relevance to character, Egyptian in Germany
What bugs the crap out of me are the "liberals" in the Muslim world and outside it who are just as fanatical in their attempts to control women as any Islamic fundamentalist is.
I have seen women who have made a personal choice to wear hijab called "slaves" and "sheep" by these so called liberals males.
What gives them the right to judge a woman based on a free choice that she has made?
I think women should have the right to wear it, or not to wear it, without having to worry about the attacks or insults from the extremists on the religious side or the extremists on the liberal side.
It is a woman's choice, let her make it without fear of recrimination from either side.
It's very interesting and it showed me that there is still lack of knowledge among Muslim women and community in the world.
Cairogal: this is the English translation at the end of the film
And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their adornment except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.
i think this shows, clearly, the different types of girls that wear the hijab. for instance, the one girl holding the cig... well, to me, even though she says she wears it because she's proud to be a Muslim, she strikes me as dishonest and has an attitude. then, the girl that is wearing the sunglasses on her head.. she makes me laugh because she seems like an idiot and someone that's only wearing it for fashion and i say, "what's the point". i mean, here she has it on and look at the way she's dressed and it's barely covering her hair. it's not sincere there. really, the only two girls that seems sincere in wearing it is the one fully covered and the student - heavy set girl.
good video. really shows a good mix of what you see and how some girls are - even though they seem asian and different than what you find here.
i think this shows, clearly, the different types of girls that wear the hijab. for instance, the one girl holding the cig... well, to me, even though she says she wears it because she's proud to be a Muslim, she strikes me as dishonest and has an attitude. then, the girl that is wearing the sunglasses on her head.. she makes me laugh because she seems like an idiot and someone that's only wearing it for fashion and i say, "what's the point". i mean, here she has it on and look at the way she's dressed and it's barely covering her hair. it's not sincere there. really, the only two girls that seems sincere in wearing it is the one fully covered and the student - heavy set girl.
good video. really shows a good mix of what you see and how some girls are - even though they seem asian and different than what you find here.
Tooners, what do you mean, "even though they seem Asian"? They are Asian. They're ethnic Malays. They, Indonesians, and others from throughout SE Asia are many. Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation on earth!
The Malay girls used never to be hijabis in the current sense. Some wore a kerchief around their heads but there was never the modern Arab-style hijab culture. Actually, it's a recent thing throughout much of the Muslim world.
It's ideological and identty driven, not religious, unless I am to be convinced that the hundreds of millions of Muslim women around the world prior to the currnt style of Hijab were only deluded and not genuinely devout.
Of course that is rubbish. Th new Hijab is a lot less about Islam than it is about Islamism, and reclamation of Honour of the nation/Ummah/whatever via appropriation of concepts of family honour.
By the way, as a liberal, it is entirely consistent that I believe I should have the right to condemn something that I believe is deleterious to women - or to anyone, for that matter. I would never support the prevention of women wearing anything, including Hijab, but doesn't mean I have to support it or what it represents.
yeah, i see indonesians here wearing hijab all the time. i knew they were asian, but there was one that looked less asian than the others, so i wasn't sure about all of them.
i think in some countries, wearing hijab is expected and if you don't then you are looked down upon. i know i see it in this culture and know women who have experienced this when deciding to remove the hijab.
I think it's interesting. Although as a Westerner, I can't comprehend wanting to wear the entire burka as a 'choice'. It just doesn't make sense to me. It's just something that I'll never fully understand, although I do have the utmost respect for religious devotion. So long as it's peaceful.
I agree with the guy that said liberals can be intolerant also. Light a cigarette in a no-smoking area, and you'll see what 'liberal tolerance' is really all about.
Very interesting commentary and i might as well throw my 2 cents into the pot.
Women wear the Hijab for numerous reasons, some good to us, some others disfavorable. It's their 'choice' as they say. I have no quarrel against that.
But it is also a social pressure on them as well, even though not readily spoken about. I respect Islam and its teachings, but you don't connect with people when you separate yourself from them, through barriers and constructions of faith or whatever.
What the women don't talk about though, is how the scripture has been used by the culture to mean that the behavior of women should be monitored, restrained and watched.
Obviously, My opinion is biased since I'am 1) american and 2) a male. but i think that in a general sense, that when you justify not having women pray with you, or have them not look you in the face, or refusing to talk to them and only speaking with their male escort.
Modesty is one thing, but detachment is another. And I feel that, while these women may love and adore the Hijab because it represents humility and a closeness to their faith; they don't realize that our actions and behaviors are how we draw nearer to our lord, not our garments or hair styles.
The truest obligation of any faith SHOULD be on how you treat other people, not how they dress, or how they show others their resolve in their beliefs.
This issue is like poligamy, because the people in support of it, show a false sense of choice; where these 13 or 14 year old girls are basically given to men in their 30s and 40s as objects, absent of free-will. For lack of a better word, these girls are enslaved. Because they are taught to honor and obey, and perform any and all acts without question, and also like this issue, it is backed up by their religion.
Women are beautiful, they dont deserve to be covered up. They don't need a handler or master. The world of men is ugly, figuratively and literally.
30 Comments:
At 2:51 PM,
Shy said…
Interesting...
At 5:36 PM,
Roba said…
raheeb.
At 5:53 PM,
Andrew said…
I agree interesting.
On a side note though, I find it ridiculous that Islam has to keep defending itself from the west.
If you want to wear a Hijab etc then you should be able to just go ahead and do it without explaination or criticism. I don't have to explain why I wear jeans everyother day.
At 7:37 PM,
Cairogal said…
It was hard to read the English translation at the end of the film, however it seems that charms, beauty, and adornment are all terms subject to interpretation. The classical Arabic used in the Quran puts native speakers at a disadvantage when interpreting the meaning. Imagine what is left to those who read those same passages translated into a completely different language! My instructor for Understanding Islam, a Muslim Jordanian, insisted that the Quran does not actually mandate what parts of the body were to be covered-only that modesty be exercised. This translation reflects the vague nature that he described.
Did anyone else think some of the responses seemed jilted? The niqabi answered in what seemed a natural manner, but the 'fashion' chic? I wondered if she thought she was being interviewed about the hijab strictly as a fashion accessory.
At 8:10 PM,
Anonymous said…
bad acting.. terrible.
Leila, stick with the fun stuff, sister-girl.
At 8:31 PM,
PALFORCE said…
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 8:33 PM,
PALFORCE said…
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 9:07 PM,
PALFORCE said…
Salam,
Great Video , thanks Leilouta.
If it shows anything it breaks the generalization of Mutohajibats. Each lady with Hijab has her own identity which is great to point out.
Peace
At 9:54 PM,
brian the sailor said…
Leilouta,
I found it interesting that you linked to the video without comment. I admire you for that. It made me think for myself (not always something I do best) and view the women as they present themselves.
I'm a pretty old fart, but since I was a kid, I saw women with head scarves and realized they were from a different culture. No problem. But the woman showing only her eyes? Sorry, but that strikes me as a little creepy. It's seen in American culture as repression more than expression.
I spent seven months in Saudi Arabia and never got used to the way women are treated, despite that that're convinced they're "happy" with their lot in life.
I'll shut up now.
At 6:52 AM,
Ha Ana Za said…
Very interesting! I've been thinking alot recently about whether to "hijab-up" or not and this film reflects both sides of the argument I suppose. As CairoGal says the Koranic prescription is quite vauge so I'm still struggling to decide...
Thanks for a great post!
Also please anyone take a look at my blog...it is quite new and I'm trying to develop a readership :-)
Thanks!
At 7:28 AM,
lala said…
I could be wrong, but I believe Leila put this video up because it's a bunch of malay/Singaporean female students being ironic about the various justifications women use for hijab, even though there is no explicit instruction to wear hijab in the Quran. The last passage in the film shows a general call to cover the breasts and private parts, and that's it. It has been extrapolated for cultural reasos to mean hair, the entire body, etc.
And everyone from the moderates, the polical, and the followers, to the niqabi (full cover) are shown not to know what on earth is behind their particular brand of modesty, religously speaking. Ironically, that means that the least hypocritical was the fashion victim because she openly admitted to not caring for religion, and only used hijab as a fashion statement.
And really, look past the film-school acting. This was an incredibbly brave film made by these women.If it was done in Malaysia, it's particularly interesting.
Thanks so much for that, Leila. If you disagree with my interpretation, please give me yours.
Lala.
At 7:29 AM,
Anonymous said…
I find the video very interesting. I think wearing Hijab is a personal decision. I would say that more important is how you live your life and treat fellow humans that has more relevance to character,
Egyptian in Germany
At 8:00 AM,
Abu Sinan said…
What bugs the crap out of me are the "liberals" in the Muslim world and outside it who are just as fanatical in their attempts to control women as any Islamic fundamentalist is.
I have seen women who have made a personal choice to wear hijab called "slaves" and "sheep" by these so called liberals males.
What gives them the right to judge a woman based on a free choice that she has made?
I think women should have the right to wear it, or not to wear it, without having to worry about the attacks or insults from the extremists on the religious side or the extremists on the liberal side.
It is a woman's choice, let her make it without fear of recrimination from either side.
At 8:15 AM,
Lilly said…
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 8:18 AM,
Lilly said…
It's very interesting and it showed me that there is still lack of knowledge among Muslim women and community in the world.
Cairogal: this is the English translation at the end of the film
And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their adornment except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.
if you want check this site for more information
http://www.muhajabah.com/surah-an-nur.htm
At 10:17 AM,
Romerican said…
What does the bit about striking feet on the ground mean? In relation to hiding one's adornments?
At 10:42 AM,
tooners said…
i think this shows, clearly, the different types of girls that wear the hijab. for instance, the one girl holding the cig... well, to me, even though she says she wears it because she's proud to be a Muslim, she strikes me as dishonest and has an attitude. then, the girl that is wearing the sunglasses on her head.. she makes me laugh because she seems like an idiot and someone that's only wearing it for fashion and i say, "what's the point". i mean, here she has it on and look at the way she's dressed and it's barely covering her hair. it's not sincere there. really, the only two girls that seems sincere in wearing it is the one fully covered and the student - heavy set girl.
good video. really shows a good mix of what you see and how some girls are - even though they seem asian and different than what you find here.
At 10:42 AM,
tooners said…
i think this shows, clearly, the different types of girls that wear the hijab. for instance, the one girl holding the cig... well, to me, even though she says she wears it because she's proud to be a Muslim, she strikes me as dishonest and has an attitude. then, the girl that is wearing the sunglasses on her head.. she makes me laugh because she seems like an idiot and someone that's only wearing it for fashion and i say, "what's the point". i mean, here she has it on and look at the way she's dressed and it's barely covering her hair. it's not sincere there. really, the only two girls that seems sincere in wearing it is the one fully covered and the student - heavy set girl.
good video. really shows a good mix of what you see and how some girls are - even though they seem asian and different than what you find here.
At 11:31 AM,
lala said…
Tooners, what do you mean, "even though they seem Asian"? They are Asian. They're ethnic Malays. They, Indonesians, and others from throughout SE Asia are many. Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation on earth!
The Malay girls used never to be hijabis in the current sense. Some wore a kerchief around their heads but there was never the modern Arab-style hijab culture. Actually, it's a recent thing throughout much of the Muslim world.
It's ideological and identty driven, not religious, unless I am to be convinced that the hundreds of millions of Muslim women around the world prior to the currnt style of Hijab were only deluded and not genuinely devout.
Of course that is rubbish. Th new Hijab is a lot less about Islam than it is about Islamism, and reclamation of Honour of the nation/Ummah/whatever via appropriation of concepts of family honour.
By the way, as a liberal, it is entirely consistent that I believe I should have the right to condemn something that I believe is deleterious to women - or to anyone, for that matter. I would never support the prevention of women wearing anything, including Hijab, but doesn't mean I have to support it or what it represents.
At 2:57 PM,
tooners said…
yeah, i see indonesians here wearing hijab all the time. i knew they were asian, but there was one that looked less asian than the others, so i wasn't sure about all of them.
i think in some countries, wearing hijab is expected and if you don't then you are looked down upon. i know i see it in this culture and know women who have experienced this when deciding to remove the hijab.
At 6:08 PM,
Safiya said…
It is in the Sunnah (in a hadith transmitted by Bukhari) that a woman should show her face and hands only.
I wear hijab and I'm very, very happy to wear it but it saddens me, both seeing it mocked and over emphasised.
At 8:54 PM,
Anonymous said…
The deleted comments I find somewhat of a turnoff. Do we all have to agree on one opinion?is that what this blog is about? Maya.
At 12:32 AM,
programmer craig said…
What bugs the crap out of me are the "liberals"
There's that voice of moderation kicking in again, eh, Abu Sinan? :P
At 2:30 AM,
programmer craig said…
Maya, if you mean the 3 deleted comments in this thread, they show "deleted by author" for me. Were there others?
At 7:33 AM,
pure_honey_tounsi said…
I like how the fashion victim is wearing hijab.
At 11:32 AM,
Karim2k said…
We stuck again in this dilemna : Hijabor not Hijab, are we decided to move a bit from the 5the century ?
At 9:05 PM,
Sam said…
at least you never had to drink this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis
At 3:02 AM,
N. said…
I think it's interesting. Although as a Westerner, I can't comprehend wanting to wear the entire burka as a 'choice'. It just doesn't make sense to me. It's just something that I'll never fully understand, although I do have the utmost respect for religious devotion. So long as it's peaceful.
I agree with the guy that said liberals can be intolerant also. Light a cigarette in a no-smoking area, and you'll see what 'liberal tolerance' is really all about.
What are your feelings about the hijab, Leilouta?
At 8:02 AM,
Alphaprimer said…
Very interesting commentary and i might as well throw my 2 cents into the pot.
Women wear the Hijab for numerous reasons, some good to us, some others disfavorable. It's their 'choice' as they say. I have no quarrel against that.
But it is also a social pressure on them as well, even though not readily spoken about. I respect Islam and its teachings, but you don't connect with people when you separate yourself from them, through barriers and constructions of faith or whatever.
What the women don't talk about though, is how the scripture has been used by the culture to mean that the behavior of women should be monitored, restrained and watched.
Obviously, My opinion is biased since I'am 1) american and 2) a male. but i think that in a general sense, that when you justify not having women pray with you, or have them not look you in the face, or refusing to talk to them and only speaking with their male escort.
Modesty is one thing, but detachment is another. And I feel that, while these women may love and adore the Hijab because it represents humility and a closeness to their faith; they don't realize that our actions and behaviors are how we draw nearer to our lord, not our garments or hair styles.
The truest obligation of any faith SHOULD be on how you treat other people, not how they dress, or how they show others their resolve in their beliefs.
This issue is like poligamy, because the people in support of it, show a false sense of choice; where these 13 or 14 year old girls are basically given to men in their 30s and 40s as objects, absent of free-will. For lack of a better word, these girls are enslaved. Because they are taught to honor and obey, and perform any and all acts without question, and also like this issue, it is backed up by their religion.
Women are beautiful, they dont deserve to be covered up. They don't need a handler or master. The world of men is ugly, figuratively and literally.
At 3:50 AM,
programmer craig said…
The Pope wears a hijab, and that's good enough for me!
Sorry. Had to make a Pope comment someplace! The Pope rocks. I may convert to Catholocism.
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