Leilouta

Tuesday, June 05, 2007

Any Volunteers?

I have been wanting to talk about this subject for a while but never got the chance until I saw this comment on my post about the Women in Art video.

“Well thats Saudi Culture. But that seems a bit biased L. You said Western Women, the proper thing would have been to show the evolution of Eastern women.”
First, I did show the evolution of Saudi women. Second, its ok to point out backwardness. Many times since I have moved here I have been in conversations about the Middle East because of my background. The conversations sometimes lead to discussions of what goes on in the “kingdom”. Many times the person has been to Saudi Arabia or had relatives who worked there. When I ask about what they think of the beheadings, amputations, women not being able to drive, forcing all women to be covered and escorted, using foreignors like slaves, the fact they can’t bring their bibles with them or wear a cross, and the fact that they are not allowed in certain cities and areas, they usually respond,“Well that’s their culture.” Well sorry, its misogynistic and backward, and we shouldn’t be afraid to say so. My husband likes to say that the pretensions of multculturalism and political correctness would break down if an Aztec was in the room asking for volunteers to help make the sun come up the next day. I agree.

11 Comments:

  • At 11:31 PM, Blogger The Lost Libyano said…

    Mysogonistic and backward according to who?(I am not saying I agree or disagree I am just looking from the outside of the bubble). What is the stick you use to messure their progression? As far as showing the Evolution of "Saudi Women". Well Saudi Arabia began in 1744, and Western Civlization has been around for thousands of years. Saudi Arabia is a very, very, small peice of Eastern Civilization. It would be more appropriate if you would have stated the evolution of western women and eastern women, or women in Saudi and women in some other western counrty which has existed for less then 300 years. I do belive your husband is right, i myself am not a big fan of political correctness and moral relativism, everyones truth is ligitamate, everyone is right, doesnt fly with me. But at the same time in order to have dialoge we must agree upon basics, we must speak the same language. How can one speak about such a complex issue such as ethics, if the two groups involved do not even agree upon the basic principals of what is right and what is wrong?

     
  • At 2:04 AM, Blogger programmer craig said…

    Well Saudi Arabia began in 1744

    You are arguing semantics. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" was created in 1969. Does that mean Libya has only been around 40 years?

    There were bedouin Arabs living in the Arabian desert at least 3000 years ago. No matter what the place was called.

    But yes, please - somebody who knows the history, I would love to read a discussion of it. I have heard that Arab women were quite different in pre-Islamic times. Persian women, too, for that matter.

    But I'm not sure the whole "western" and "eastern" thing will work going back more than 1500 years.

     
  • At 7:23 AM, Blogger Olivia said…

    Yes that is odd of LL - I too was thinking of Saudi as going back as far as Craig says. Just Arab culture in general...

    But then that in itself is different to Muslim culture and it's too bad there isn't generally a happy medium between the two, unless the relative liberalism of Jordan can be considered?

     
  • At 1:57 PM, Blogger Miss Carnivorous said…

    The Saudis are filthy rich! Money cushions you against oppression. It's a lot easier to be a rich Saudi woman in a mysoginistic culture than it is to be a poor Afghani woman in a mysoginistic culture. Its the same as the Victorian women. The laws were hard on the poor, but had less effect on the aristocrats. But on the other hand the immigrants who do all the work for the Saudi women have to live under the law as well.

     
  • At 5:23 PM, Blogger Phoebe said…

    Money does not cushion you against oppression. It cushions you against physical pain, generally.

     
  • At 5:23 PM, Anonymous L said…

    Very interesting point Miss Carn. I actually hadn't even really considered that factor up until now. Most blogs I've read by Saudi women living there and abroad all generally seem to defend their kingdom and they seem pretty happy with life there. Apply the same standards, rules, and regulations they are living in today and take away what is essentially one giant welfare system for those lucky enough to be born Saudi and I think there would be a lot more complaining.

     
  • At 5:26 PM, Blogger Miss Carnivorous said…

    That is because under the veil, the saudi women are dripping with gold and wearing designer clothes! Chains of gold indeed!

     
  • At 8:16 PM, Blogger programmer craig said…

    Who needs to drive, when you've got a full time driver? Hell, I wish I had a driver.

     
  • At 1:06 AM, Blogger D.B. Shobrawy said…

    Leila-I'm glad you brought this up because the concepts of multiculturalism and political correctness is what's making everyone crazy and uptight. It causes problems that people dont immediately realize by discouraging open dialouge. As a result racism and ignorance grows behind closed doors in the home because peoples curiosities are suppressed. I try to confront this in my personal life and through my writing by acknowledging stereotypes and challenging peoples irrational sensitivities.

    It also provides alot of entertainment.

     
  • At 12:45 PM, Blogger أبو سنان said…

    Well, the first thing I usually say, as I am asked the same things because I am married to a Saudi, is that it is not the same all over Saudi.

    Things are much different in Saudi depending on which area you are in. In the Hijaz you will see women walking around without hijab, or it just sits on their shoulder to be hastily thrown on their heads if a religious policeman, which are rather rare in Hijaz, comes by.

    Women do drive, all over Saudi, although there is an official ban on it. Women often travel alone, to the mall, stores, you name it. They even travel abroad with nothing more than a letter from their father, uncle or husband.

    Saudi Arabia does put people to death, but so does the USA. I really dont see the difference between electricution and beheading. As a matter of fact, eletricution can take some minutes for the person to die, beheading is instant.

    I agree that foriegners are treated badly, but this just isnt Saudi, this is the entire Middle East. Lebanon, whom many Westerns think of as "enlightened" has a terrible reputation for it's treatment of foreign workers, but I have seen the same types of things happen outside of the Middle East.

    Sweeping generalisations about Saudi, or any other place, dont do justice to the facts of the situation.

    In Riydah there are places where the young people go to have sex, regular "Lover's Lane" if you want. I bet that doesnt fit into many people's expectation, but it is there. Gay weddings in Medina, drunk drivers in Mekkah, it's all there.

    I am no fan of the Saudi regime, I think the royal family are ignorant bigots who will never reform, they need to be overthrown, but lets be accurate about Saudi and what happens there.

    You cannot compare places like Jeddah, Riyadh and Hail and think that a cookie cutter, one label fits all will work.

    If I were you I would point out to the people the geographic distance between Tunisia and Saudi and ask them why they think you would really know anything about it or have anything to do with it?

    Tunisia, in MENA (Middle East North Africa) standards is relatively modern and mostly secular. It is a very long way away from Saudi, it is in Africa and culture wise shares very little with Saudi. The Arabic spoken in Tunisia is almost a completely different language than that spoken in Tunisia.

    I think the people who ask these questions need a bit of a history and geography lesson.

    It would be like asking someone from California what they think of the IRA in Ireland because they speak the same language and share the same religion.

    It makes no sense. These people work on the assumption that all Arabs/North Africans have the same culture, same views on politics and religion. This couldnt be farther from the truth. They are radically different, and in the case of the Berbers in North Africa, they are not even of the same race as the people in the Middle East.

     
  • At 10:33 AM, Blogger Maya M said…

    Great joke! I'm citing it in my latest post.

     

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